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Carpe Otium - "Seize The Weekend" |
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Michael Conley
Site Admin
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 1759
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Yes
Yes
No |
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Kyle Groseclose
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 440
Location: Ohio, Akron
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Agreed... there is even a real world reason for the no... for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You push the water harder the water pushes you harder and you end up in the same situatuion. :) |
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Mason G
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Massillon,OH
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: |
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The swimming area is my department. Strength is important, but if you don't know how to swim fast it dosen't really help that much. If you had CO swimming I could see it helping, but ifyour unskilled I'm not sure it would matter that much. Besides, no matter how strong you are, there is no way you coud swim as fast as or faster then you can run.
Maybe an endow could let you tread water while waering heavy armor?
_________________
With All Due Respect
Manji Takadama,
Legate of Aitia
Follower of Reason
Student of Philosophy |
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Kyle Groseclose
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 440
Location: Ohio, Akron
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| That I might be able to see, somthing like that would be on a case by case basis at discretion of the marshall. |
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JordancBrun
Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 55
Location: D town
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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As a former lifeguard/swim instructor, it's a question of bouyancy, not strength, with metal armor. I'd rule that endow doesn't help you underwater - holding a 10 lb brick above your head for 1 min or rescuing someone from the deep end in just trunks is bad enough - I can't imagine wearing even my supple leather armor to go swimming... Clothes get weighty and it's a process of continuous exertion, whereas endow is a one-shot-he-man feat o' strength.
Doing water stunt work for some films I've done included a sweater and jeans over a full wetsuit, and it was virtually impossible to move - only the suit kept me bouyant, in fact. As far as I'm concerned, you guys are being incredibly generous with your "water mod rules" as-is.
Oh, and just to point out for an FYI, Noah: Biata CANNOT learn Read Magic. Barbarians can (and you're right, it costs them double) Biata take no cost penalty to scholarly skills. This is a common mistake. |
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John Williams
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| It's not that far fetched.I know for a fact that it is possible to tread water in a full combat load. That includes fully loaded flak jacket, rifle, ammunition, kevlar helmet, and a 40 to 60 pound backpack. That's on the light side. Granted there is a factor of bouyancy in the gear, but lots of strength too. |
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JordancBrun
Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 55
Location: D town
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| John Williams wrote: | | It's not that far fetched.I know for a fact that it is possible to tread water in a full combat load. That includes fully loaded flak jacket, rifle, ammunition, kevlar helmet, and a 40 to 60 pound backpack. That's on the light side. Granted there is a factor of bouyancy in the gear, but lots of strength too. |
Reread my post again regarding endow being a one shot feat of strength and the buoyancy of gear - I think you're missing my point. Also, comparing medieval armaments to modern is... well, I don't think it's a fair comparison, and let's leave it at that.
The following thread is an example of why I prefer not to go on or run non-phys-repped scenarios (flying or swimming effects, par example) in this game. If someone wants to fight me in the water, chase me into a lake or river - it's happened before. The same goes for scenarios that are supposed to take place in a cave and PCs and NPCs alike are walking through the woods... I believe that if you can't physically represent what's going on, the rules get convoluted and we get bogged down in nit-picking. It adds complexity and disbelief into a game that can get complex (counting hits and keeping track of spells) and unbelieveable (that 5'7", 250 lb guy in a black tabbard is a wisp of dark mist? Okay...) enough as-is.
On a side note (and possibly taking this off-thread, my apologies ahead of time): it has always been my thought that Craftsman: Others were meant to represent occupational skill-based tasks that were not covered by rules in the game, but were up to the discression of the chapter how they were utilized. Craftsman:Swimming isn't really a "craftsman" skill in my book - sure, you can get paid for swimming in today's society (Phelps), but not so much in a medieval one. By eliminating the presence of convoluted "swimming" and "underwater" scenarios, you don't need to bend rules like this. I've always felt that if it ain't a job, it can't be a craftsman. Hence why characters take Craftsman:Others like: "Brewer", "Notary", "storyteller", "fisherman", "Historian", and "Writer" - and not "good-looking", "insulter", and "chin-up enthusiast." |
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John Gillen
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 37
Location: St. Clairsville, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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WHAT WHAT WHAT?
You mean I can't have CO: Good looking?
that's a waste of three build. *sigh* Guess I gotta spiritforge.
:D |
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Michael Conley
Site Admin
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 1759
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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To expand on this, at NorthCoast NERO CO's are ways for characters to expand their character beyond combat skills, to give some depth and feel to them.
CO swimming, probably pushing the envelope, but we will tend to err on the side of letting characters be what they what want within the confines of the rules, and the rules do not forbid the use of CO's. CO is Craft Other, a craft skill that does not fit into one of the craft skills listed in the skill section. So while CO swimming doesn't fit the mold, take CO Oyster diver and it would likely include the ability to swim.
NERO is an arms race of ever expanding damages and defenses, anything that helps alleviate that arms race is a boon to the game at large and something we at NcN welcome!
As too things you can't rep, it is the unfortunate truth we are playing a fantasy role playing game and I am not Industrial light and sound. The whole game is based on imagination. At NcN we do better than anyone else at representing the environment and the creatures, but there are limitations and those limitations must be filled in with you, the players imagination.
To me a world where nothing flies and nothing swims is much less believable than role playing flying and being in the water. |
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JordancBrun
Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 55
Location: D town
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Conley wrote: | To expand on this, at NorthCoast NERO CO's are ways for characters to expand their character beyond combat skills, to give some depth and feel to them.
CO swimming, probably pushing the envelope, but we will tend to err on the side of letting characters be what they what want within the confines of the rules, and the rules do not forbid the use of CO's. CO is Craft Other, a craft skill that does not fit into one of the craft skills listed in the skill section. So while CO swimming doesn't fit the mold, take CO Oyster diver and it would likely include the ability to swim. |
In that stead, CO: Oyster Diver would probably give the character rudimentary knowledge of mollusk-like creatures, as well as a good evaluation of pearls.
| Michael Conley wrote: | | NERO is an arms race of ever expanding damages and defenses, anything that helps alleviate that arms race is a boon to the game at large and something we at NcN welcome! |
Agreed. Too many times this game degrades into "I have the most magic items" or "I swing the most damage" or, my least favorite: "I've got the biggest transform"... To truly flesh out the world and avoid a WoW or Diablo-esque game, it helps to create characters that have and maintain a power level from a wealth, political, or mental attribute, rather than a statistical gain. NERO allows us this freedom, but so few are able to take it. I'm happy to see that NCN and a few other chapters we play in are willing to provide for this atmosphere, although the Stat-Power issue is often an attribute of RolePlaying Games in general.
| Michael Conley wrote: | As too things you can't rep, it is the unfortunate truth we are playing a fantasy role playing game and I am not Industrial light and sound. The whole game is based on imagination. At NcN we do better than anyone else at representing the environment and the creatures, but there are limitations and those limitations must be filled in with you, the players imagination.
To me a world where nothing flies and nothing swims is much less believable than role playing flying and being in the water. |
I and others have repped flying creatures on sticks or lines suspended from pulley systems. I do understand that imagination comes into play quite a bit in these games, and is one of the reasons I continuously enjoy them. I merely stated that my personal preference for running plots and going on modules does not extend to these encounters. I will not get pissed if such an encounter is presented that I cannot avoid as a character/player, nor will I degrade the plot team that uses them. |
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Joel Mathis
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Role-play is a wonderful part of the game, but you can't really blame people for wanting stronger characters. I have three characters with entirely different spending of build. I have one who's pure role=play skills, one who's on;y one skill in general that is a combat skill that I use to role-play, and one who, to be honest, is mostly spells and damage skills(and a couple COs). I enjoy playing them all, and I have fun with each, but I don't blame people for wanting to be more useful in a fight rather than hire people to protect him. |
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Michael Conley
Site Admin
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 1759
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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There is no blame, it is simply a problem with any system that eventually it expands beyond what is reasonable or playable. To pretend it is not happening is to doom your game to failure.
NERO has a problem with power. To make a monster survive 30 seconds I have to stat it so heinously that is untouchable by many players.
CO's and altered environments help to alleviate that. Swinging for 30 in a system where all you need do is touch a toe to do that 30 is a problem. Swinging for 20 and having to deal with not being able to breath because you are underwater and having Co's that help you solve the problem in other ways helps improve the situation. |
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